Tag Archives: Equipment

Tuning the Genesis Bow Follow-up

QandA logoI got a follow-up email regarding the Genesis tuning problem.

With NASP unfortunately we can’t change the arrow in any way and must use the Easton 1820 “Genesis Arrow” so it seems we’re left to play with nock height and repeatable form. Is that how you see it?

This is the case for official NASP competitions. My previous answer was for the broader archery community and competitions out it the wonderful world of archery outside of NASP. Here’s my answer to this email:

* * *

Yep, it is somewhat of a trap. The idea is to have a level playing field (same bow, arrow, target, distance) and I agree with that. Poor kids wouldn’t have the resources of richer kids to get their own arrows and have them fitted and tuned. But then each kid is stuck with identical equipment and to shoot well, equipment must be fitted to the archer and his/her abilities.

The only way to “weaken” an arrow like the Genesis competition arrow is to increase the point weight, and I am not sure that even that is allowed by NASP rules. The significant factor you seem to have control over is draw weight. If any of your kids are shooting anything less than full draw weight, getting them up to that will help. Also, you can do a little testing to see if there are bigger problems you do have control over. One of the things I see on a lot of Genesis bows are streaks on the arrow shelf and arrow rest. These are little smears of plastic left behind when fletches collide with the shelf/rest. For this reason, you want to clean off those surfaces regularly. A bad loose of the string by a beginner and Whack! there is a new streak. You won’t see it, though, if there are myriad others still there.

So for your really serious competitors, get a can of foot powder spray (it has to be powder). Spray the shelf and rest of their bows and have your archers shoot a couple of arrows. If there are any disturbances in the powder, you have a clearance problem. If you are shooting arrows with press-in rather than glue-on nocks (I think the old Genesis arrows had glue-ons), you can rotate the nock so that the fletch that was hitting no longer hits (since the arrow doesn’t start rotating until it is clear of the bow it is usually the bottom fletch). Re-test and rotate the nock until no more problem. Then make all of the other arrows the same by rotating their nocks into the same position. They make nock rotating tools that have built in guides for just this task (see photo below).

A nock alignment tool. The little notched arm is moved so it touches the index vane only when the nock is correctly positioned.

A nock alignment tool. The little notched arm is moved so it touches the index vane only when the nock is correctly positioned.

Since archers with different draw lengths have different string paths, you will need to test each bow-arrow-archer combination. (Bring lots of rags so that archers can clean up their bows afterward.)

If there are big streaks or the rest is getting hit, check the nocking point height. If the nocking point is too low, they will be launching their arrows “nock low” which is asking for clearance problems.

I do believe that you are allowed to adjust your draw weight, no? Having an arrow that stiff (spine is 0.592˝) would require the bow to be about 40#-45# to be shot correctly at that length, so reducing the draw weight would just make things worse, but turning the bow down just a bit (which changes the string path) may correct for a clearance issue so that may be worthwhile. If there is room to turn a child’s bow “up” a bit in draw weight, that might cure the clearance issue and provide better arrow flight.

 

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Problems Tuning Genesis Bows

QandA logoI get a lot of requests for help and I am glad to provide what I can. One of my readers upbraided me for this because I have been more than a little adamant that archery coaches shouldn’t “work for free.” So, I am being somewhat inconsistent. There are a couple of reasons I do this. For one, I am still trying to learn how to “coach remotely,” so I embrace opportunities to do that. Second, there is so much need for help in the archery coaching community. The main reason, though, is that people are turning to me because they can’t find the help they need. Not that that help isn’t available in every case but that it has been made hard to find. (I really, really, (really) wish the archery organizations would embrace coach support wholeheartedly instead of the current “train ‘em and drop ‘em” approach.) Until such resources are more widely available I will continue to do as much as I can to help those coaches who seek it.

Today’s topic comes from a reader of this blog who seeks help tuning Genesis bows. Here’s his email:

I’ve been darn near driving myself insane trying to learn to understand and tune a bow, specifically the Genesis.

A little background: I’m Level 2 certified wanting to do level 3. Just having trouble finding a training that’s close and works with my schedule having five kids of my own. I’ve read many of your books and in fact own 4-5 of them as resources for me and our coaches. We have a very large NASP program of 95+ in our elementary school from grades 4-6. We’ve been doing NASP for 5-6 years. We’ve won a team state championship in our second year and some individual championships. I’ve not done anything to the bows except yoke tuning and nock point tying 3/8˝ high of zero on a bow square and the occasional serving repair at the local archery shop. Perhaps I should be tying the nock even higher.

I’ve talked to other coaches and have picked up a few tips/suggestions regarding bow tuning and done far too many hours of research. Most coaches, since we’re competing against them, I believe are a bit guarded about sharing too much info. However, it seems almost all of our bows make arrows kick to the left for a RH archer no matter what I do.

For bows that seem to have cam lean I’ve tried rotating the bottom limbs, fiddled with the ATA length by twisting strings/cables, and replaced bushings in the cams. Regardless, I still see arrows kicking typically.

I realize that when pairing archers with bows that are not their own in a program it is not a one-size-fits-all situation. However about 50% of our archers have their own bows and I’d like to be able to tune them properly but cannot figure it out.

Also, once we begin shooting as a team we have enough bows for those who don’t own their own bows to each use one of ours thereby allowing us to individually tune. As NASP has grown it’s become more competitive and I’m wanting to keep up but feel we’re being left behind and want to keep our kids competitive and give them every chance possible to win. I’m willing to do whatever it takes we just don’t know what that is when it comes to bow tuning for the Genesis. If you understand these bows I’d be willing to pay you good money for a private bow-tech clinic if you’re ever in the area, not joking. 🙂

I just read the below link where you mention attaching a guide to bow and arrow fitting to the article regarding but don’t see the text document mentioned. Perhaps it would help. https://archerycoach.wordpress.com/2016/03/03/porpoising-and-fishtailing-follow-up-and-the-acg/

Any guidance or assistance is greatly appreciated!

And here is my response:

* * *

The document mentioned in that post was attached to the email sent to the correspondent, not the post. I have attached it to this email in the hope it might assist you.

Everything I am going to say from now on applies to right-handed bows. If you are dealing with a left-handed bow, you have to switch left and right. ;o)

Your kids arrows are flying to the left and you can’t tune it out because the arrows are too stiff. The “Genesis formula” (my term) is to make a bow and arrow combination that can be shot by a great many people. So the bow has zero letoff, which allows it to be shot by people with widely different draw lengths with no adjustment (not so with a bow with letoff) and an arrow that is too long and too stiff for people with short draw lengths so that it will be long enough and not too weak for people with longer draw lengths. But arrows that are too stiff for a particular situation will fly off to the left. Arrows that are too weak, will fly off to the right. (Remember that left and right directions have to be switched for left-handed archers.) Since most youths fall into the shorter draw length category, most arrows used for the Genesis (especially the “Genesis Arrow” are too stiff and will fly to the left no matter what you do to the bow.

This is because the farther you draw a bow, like this one, the more energy is stored in the bow. The more energy stored, the more energy is given to the arrow when shot and the stiffer the arrow needs to be to receive it. (Imagine a whippy thin arrow being shot from a very stout bow–the arrow might break upon release!)

“So, in tuning, we set up the bow and tune the arrow.”

So, in tuning, we set up the bow and tune the arrow. (Little tweaks of the bow may take place for fine tuning purposes, so this is just a generalization.)

The hard thing with kids is that they are still growing. If you fit them for arrows (see attachment) “correctly” they will over the next six months, grow an inch or half an inch and their draw length goes up accordingly and now they arrows are too short (for safety) and too weak (as the bow is now “stronger” because it is being pulled farther). What we recommend is to fit arrows to youth’s bows that are one spine group stiffer for each extra inch of length you choose. By choosing to use an arrow that is 2-3 inches longer than usual, if you didn’t choose a stiffer shaft, the arrow would be too weak. But with those stiffer shafts, when the youth grows and needs a stronger arrow, that extra length allows the arrows to be shortened (making them stiffer) while still being long enough for safety.

Standard bow setup for “fingers” shooters is to have the bottom of the top nock locator 1/2” above square. The purpose of this is to launch arrows a bit “nock high” to avoid clearance issues with the arrow rest. Genesis bows are not what one would call high precision bows, so some cam lean and other less desirable attributes are to be expected and really don’t contribute to your issues. The problems you are having are likely due to just arrow shaft stiffness mismatches.

I hope this helps.

Steve

PS We are working on a series of e-booklets explaining all of this and the attached document is to be part of that, from which we expect to make a little money ($1.99 per booklet?), so I ask that you don’t share the document SMFAwith your colleagues. Of course, if you learn the knowledge provided in it, you will be free to share that with your fellow coaches. ;o)

PPS We have done bow maintenance and tuning workshops before and we might be able to set something up if you would like (we are not so far from one another geographically). There are, however, people in your community who might be able to provide this service cheaper (we need to recover travel and lodging costs, etc.). The purpose of this e-booklet series mentioned above is to provide much of the information you need. I also strongly recommend the book “Simple Maintenance for Archery” by Allan Anderson and Ruth Rowe. It contains step-by-step instructions for many of the tasks need for tuning and maintenance (with photos!). It is now out in a second edition (photo is of first edition).

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Is it My Equipment, the Environment, or Me?

When experiencing problems in archery, the key question for archers is: is it my equipment, the environment (wind, rain, etc.) or me responsible for my misses. Since you cannot solve a problem you do not know you have, this is something coaches have to help with as often as not. Believing one has an equipment problem when it is really form/execution is to road to nowhere.

Consider the following story from my friend Tom Dorigatti, a compound bow guru:

Do you remember me telling you that a careless person in the range went running (and I do mean running) past my bow and knocked it flying some 15 feet onto the hard concrete floor? Do you also remember me telling you that the silly thing was just not shooting well, or holding well, and was tossing flyers at will high and/or low out of nowhere?

I put on a new Hamskea arrow rest (taken off my Merlin bow), I checked axles and cams for straightness/cracks, misalignment. I rechecked and checked my measurements again. I found nothing that should be causing this. I do not miss by 12˝ or more at 20 yards, period.

“Well, I went a step farther and took a large magnifying glass and went over that bow from stem to stern looking for anything that may be a crack, or break in the limbs and/or the riser. I found nothing.

I have no way of checking for a twisted riser, however. So, we were down to either a twisted riser or a failure somewhere on the bow that we/I couldn’t detect. I called up Darton and explained what exactly had happened to the bow. I explained how it wasn’t shooting for crap, and that I would like to send it in for them to check out for a twisted or cracked riser. I got an RA Number sent immediately.

From the time I sent the bow in until the time I got it back was 10 days. They had asked for an arrow that I was using out of the bow and how I set the bow for its paper tune. Of course, I tune a slight nock high right tear because bullet holes for me doesn’t cut it.

I called them back after about a week and asked if they’d found the problem. They had. That idiot who knocked the bow flying had splintered (not visibly) all four limbs on the bow! What was happening is the splinters were opening and closing at their will and state, and not consistent because they were failing worse as time went on.

“What is important for coaches to do is to listen to these stories.”

The riser was checked and it wasn’t bent or twisted. Darton replaced all four limbs on the bow, and set it back up to factory specifications, which so happens to be exactly where I had it set anyway! Of course, I checked all settings before even trying to shoot the bow, and I guess it was right by them, since they told me they checked the tune after they’d rebuilt the bow.

Now the thing shoots like it is supposed to and I’m not fighting the nose-dives and wild arrows. It is shooting as tightly (or a touch tighter) than I am able to hold, so I don’t have any complaints.

In spite of the fact that the bow had been “abused” (not my me, though), Darton replaced all four limbs, reset things, and sent it back at absolutely no charge to me.

I now have a bow that holds steady now, after months of fighting it and blaming myself. because of the “shake,” when all the while most all of it was broken/failing limbs. I was lucky … because those four limbs could have broken all at once at full draw and … that is not nice to think about!

My sight movement since I started shooting has always been an up and down movement. Rarely do I ever have a side to side swim of my sight. I don’t have very many left and right misses either. So, I should have known that there was something really out of kilter with the bow when it kept getting worse and worse as time went on. But, I blamed form, and that shake because I went through all the measurements of the bow and they were spot on.

My suspicions really arose when it got to the point I couldn’t find anything else. I knew I was fighting the bow constantly. I had a friend shoot the bow and he said he struggled to keep the bow up close to center; it was like he had to fight the bow to keep it from having the sight drop out the bottom, too.

Another thing that put me onto the bow being screwed up was paper testing. I always shoot six different arrows when paper testing, not just a single shaft. Who the heck knows, you could pick a good one or you could pick a bad one, but when all your arrows give the same tear, you know things are good. With the “broken” bow, I was getting several tears per my tune, then a wild nock right tear of 2-3˝, then back to a “normal tear” for a couple, then a another wild tear. And it wasn’t the same arrow each time. Sometimes I could get three or four in a row, and rarely five or all six. That finally convinced me that something on that bow was moving around or changing as the bow was being shot.

“So, coaches, keep your ears open. Ask questions of the story tellers. Keep mental notes.”

The reason I am sharing this long story with you is because it was a long story. Here was a very, very careful archer, an archer who documents his equipment very carefully, an archer who is very cognizant of his own shot details, and an archery who has loads of experience and it still took him a great while to finally come to grips with the real problem.

When recurve limbs have interior defects, they eventually show up as limbs that look deformed, but compound limbs are shorter and typically solid fiberglass and do not necessarily show signs of internal damage.

What is important for coaches to do is to listen to these stories. From them you can glean knowledge but also they can give you an appreciation of how hard it is to diagnose some equipment problems. Because Tom is such an experienced bow mechanic, it took him longer to eventually send it back to the manufacturer with a note “It’s broke, can you fix it?” It is a matter of pride for both Tom and I that we can fix almost anything that goes wrong with our gear and it can cost us time and money and effort to overcome this belief.

It is also important to listen to these stories for examples of good and bad behavior on the part of the manufacturers. Darton showed itself to be a quality company. I have had equally good service from other manufacturers. But when an archer has a bad experience with a seller or manufacturer, he then tells that story repeatedly for the rest of his life! This contributes a lot to a feeling of negativity floating around archery and it is nice to be able to note times in which a positive result happens.

So, coaches, keep your ears open. Ask questions of the story tellers. Keep mental notes. The deeper you get into coaching, the less obvious equipment problems become (the easy ones are detected and fixed easily). There aren’t any textbooks or training programs on how to help your student-archers with equipment problems … yet, so you have to find ways to educate yourself otherwise.

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Compound Letoff—More is Better, Right?

Letoff is what makes compound bows special. Without letoff, compound bows are just a mishmash of wheels and pulleys. But, with letoff, wow!

If you are unfamiliar with the concept, compound bows incorporate mechanical advantages to have the draw force of a bow ramp up faster than recurves and longbows and then when they reach “peak weight” the force drops off down to a much lower “holding weight” at full draw (see illustration). Because of that faster ramp up, the total energy stored in the bow is greater for a 40# compound bow than for a 40# recurve or 40# longbow, even with the force give-back from the peak weight to the bottom of “the valley.”

The most typical “letoff” is 65% but when they were introduced they were 30-40%, then 50% became popular, then 65%, and now bows with as high as 80% letoff can be purchased. The letoff percentage is how much of the draw force is taken off, so a 40% letoff would reduce the peak weight by 40% at full draw. A 60# compound bow with 67% letoff leaves the archer only holding 20# at full draw, twenty pounds! The other 40# or so has been thrown onto the cabling system so that, in effect, the limbs help pull one another.compound-draw-force-curve

So, being Americans, we think that if letoff is what makes a compound bow special, we want “to get me some more of that,” and the more the better.

Unfortunately this is not necessarily a good thing.

One can design a bow where there is almost 100% letoff and you would be under almost no strain from the draw at full draw. But for target archers this is definitely not a good thing. We want to have enough holding weight to get a clean launch of our arrows. Even with release aids, a very low holding weight (aka a high letoff) means that only a small force is needed to change the launch position of the rear end of the arrow. Therefore it is easier to mislaunch arrows. This is the same consideration with recurve archers who do not have enough draw force “in hand” to get cleanly off of the string. (The hardest bow I have on hand to shoot is a 10# recurve bow. Getting off that string cleanly is very difficult.)

Most compound target archers seem to have gravitated to about 65% letoff. I say “about” because exact letoff cannot be built into a bow. If you change draw weight, or brace height, or any number of things on a compound bow, you can change the letoff involved (not hugely, but some).

Hunters are more prone to use a bow having 80% letoff as they will only be taking a few shots, may have to shoot from an awkward position, have larger targets to hit, and may have to wait for a moving target to clear obstructing brush or turn for a clean shot. The extra letoff allows more time at full draw.

More time at full draw is the advantage of letoff. Because of the lessened strain on the archer at full draw, they have more time to align their bows correctly and then aim carefully. When peak bow weight happens at full draw, as it does with recurves and longbows, time at full draw is necessarily short and less care can be afforded.

 

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Bowstrings: A Quick Survey

I had a lesson the other day with one of my Olympic Recurve students and he was complaining that the bowstrings he bought for his 68˝ recurve bow produced brace heights that were too high, even with no twists. I asked if the strings had been “shot in” and he said they were.

Bowstrings made with modern materials need many fewer shots to temper them than do older materials (Dacron and earlier). The old rule of thumb was 100 shots were needed, now I would estimate 30-35 should be recurve_bow_stringsufficient. After any stretch has occurred, the string is twisted to create the desired brace height. But this process is of no help if the untwisted string is too short.

This situation reminded me that on many occasions when buying large numbers of bowstrings for archery programs that many, if not most, were too short, producing quite high brace heights. On beginner bows this is not so much of a problem, the only one I could think of is making sure the archer’s armguards were placed farther from the wrist to provide the protection necessary. But on recurve bows of serious archers …

So, here is my question (please respond with a comment):

Have you experienced buying commercial bowstrings that turned out to be too short for normal use?

Any wisdom you want to share regarding how you cope with this would be nice. (I make my own bowstrings, but this is not an option for most archers.)

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One More Time (Arrow Tuning While Changing Draw Weight)

QandA logoI got this question as part of a larger issue from one of my Olympic Recurve students:
My Arrow cut length is 29.25˝, so if I buy these new shafts should I cut them at 30.5˝ for now? Or should I cut them at 31˝?”

This student is working his way to a higher draw weight but wants to explore different arrows at the same time. Here’s what I said (with slight modifications).

* * *

My standard recommendation is to make the draw weight change first, then fit yourself for new arrows. (Shooting to accustom oneself to a higher draw weight can be done blank bale and need only take weeks or at most a few months.) But the question here is basically: How do I fit arrows to allow for a higher draw weight in the future? So, that’s what I will address.

apple-arrow-saw

An arrow saw. This one is made by Apple.

A start is to fit your current draw weight and cut length in the new arrow’s spine chart. Then move up one spine group on the chart (stiffer) and then add 1˝ to the cut length or move up two spine groups and then add 2˝ to the cut length. It all depends on how much draw weight you want to add. Roughly 5# = 1˝ of cut length, so if you are looking to go up five pounds, then you need just one spine group and one inch of cut length more than you are shooting now to allow for that change.

This is based upon how spine charts are set up by the manufacturers. They basically define spine groups, defining them by each inch of shaft length or 5# of draw weight for recurve bows. (There are some variations in the draw weights; Easton just made significant changes in their target recurve chart draw weights, for example.)

By buying an arrow that is stiffer, then cutting it longer you can create an arrow that is the same spine as the shorter weaker shaft that would be an exact fit. This arrow will shoot well and as you crank the draw weight up, you can shorten the arrows as you do so, keeping them reasonably well tuned. If you go up five pounds of draw weight and cut off that extra inch of shaft length, you have an arrow that is one spine group stiffer which is required at that higher draw weight.

Longer arrows than needed can also stretch the usable limits of a riser-attached clicker. While such changes are being pursued, using a clicker attached to one’s sight extension bar may be helpful. When arrows are cut shorter, the clicker needs to be moved in the exact amount of the cut.

This is a lot of fussing, but the advantage is this: it is very hard for archers to ignore where they arrows land. If one is shooting an untuned bow, the arrows will not group well and the archer will often think it is because they are doing something wrong and change their behavior for no reason other than their bow is not tuned. So having a reasonably tuned setup at all times can be beneficial.

 

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Central Plane ? of the Bow?

QandA logoI always assume I am being perfectly clear, but I get help from readers who write to me and tell me when I am not. This is something for which I am grateful as it helps me do a better job of explaining things. Here is a recent request for a clarification that I thought I should share.

On page 64 of The Principles of Coaching Archery, Vol. 1, you say that the sight aperture [should be] in the central plane of the bow (along with the bow string). I’m not sure what you mean by ‘sight aperture,’ and not sure about ‘central plane.’
“I’m assuming you don’t mean that the pin (or whatever) that is part of the sight should be obscured by the bow string. I shoot a bare longbow for practice, but I hunt with a compound bow that has a sight, and it wouldn’t do me much good if the pin were hidden by the bow string.

Here’s my response:

* * *

I usually ask whether you want the long answer or the short one, but …

If your bow is set up right (any of them), the bow string should share a plane with the riser. The riser, were it to be split in two slicing down its middle from top to bottom (from the archer’s viewpoint), that is what the “central plane” is. (If you have a metal riser, the screw holes on the back are in that plane so you can use them to visually check whether the bowstring is “in plane” in that it should line up with both screw holes. On recurve bows, before the advent of “adjustable limb pockets,” the string could be no other place. If you bought a bow and the string wasn’t aligned on the center of the riser, you sent it back. (If later, you acquired a twisted limb, then there is more than one problem involved.) Now that we can “adjust limbs in their pockets” I have seen bows with bow limbs tilted in the same direction, creating a situation that the bowstring was quite far from centrally located. These bows don’t shoot worth a darn if left that way.)

See how the bowstring ;ines up with the central plane of the riser, how the archer holds the bow vertically? All of these are needed criteria for repetitive accurate shooting.

See how the bowstring lines up with the central plane of the riser, how the archer holds the bow vertically? All of these are needed criteria for repetitive accurate shooting.

Ideally when the string is pulled back and let go it moves toward the riser in or near to that plane. The arrow needs to be set up so that it sits in or very near to that plane so that the string pushes it along the axis of the arrow. If the string pushes on the back of the arrow and the arrow is sideways to that plane the arrow will spin like a helicopter blade! So, a basic bow setup requires the string and arrow to sit in this same plane. The arrow should, if it is spined right, then fly in this same plane toward the target, which means the sight’s aperture (pin, ring, scope with dot, scope with a ring, whatever) must also be in that plane (dead center, please).

When I first work with an archer, one of the first things I check is whether his/her aperture is “in plane.” If it is not, they do not have a good tune. The equivalent, if you are shooting Barebow and using a point of aim aiming technique, is that your POAs need to be in a vertical plane with the target center (a 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock line through the X-ring is part of this plane which, interestingly, is the exact same plane we were just talking about). If your POA is to the left of that line to hit the center, then your arrows are too weak (assuming a RHed archer). If the POA is to the right of that line, your arrows are too stiff.

All of this is determined by bow design and by the fact that when an arrow flies the only force remaining on it is gravity, so the arrow moves up and down only (absent wind) after it is launched. If that arrow doesn’t start in the central plane as described, it will not end up in it and will not hit the center of the target.

If the bowstring were off-center on the bow, it would tend to twist the bow in your hand and also end up pushing your arrows in a direction other than down the length of your arrow shafts and so your arrows would be hippety-hopping all day long (fishtailing primarily).

I am in the process of pushing a “principles-based archery coaching” approach in which coaches can learn a few of these basic design/physical principles which then allow them to figure out what is going wrong with bow setups, no matter the situation. Ain’t there yet, but working on it.

As to hiding the sight aperture (pin, ring, scope with dot, scope with a ring, whatever) compound bows allow the use of a peep sight which allows you to look through the string and for other bows, it is important that the pupil of your aiming eye (the hole that lets the light in) is lined up along side the bowstring, tangent to that string, meaning as close to the “plane” as possible without having the string block your vision.

And, of course, when you shoot Barebow, there is no sight aperture to place correctly or incorrectly.

An Added Note Now that you have some idea of this central plane of a bow, can you now see why a bow sight’s sight bar (the vertical part when being used) has to be parallel to the central plane? If it is not, then when you move the aperture up and down to adjust for shots of different distances, you will also be moving the aperture left and right relative to that plane. This will create left and/or right misses depending on the angle of the sight bar (the amount of the miss will vary with the distance).

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When Is It Time to Move Up to a Better Bow?

QandA logoI got an email from a Olympic Recurve student regarding what kind of bow to move up to. He is a serious student who has a good beginner/intermediate bow, an SF Premium Plus. He had tried a couple of other bows but went on to say “Not that it will make me a better archer, but if I feel more comfortable, maybe it will help me improve. What do you think?” Often these requests are just fishing for recommendations of brands and models for them to go check out but this request is more level-headed and needed to be taken seriously. Specifically, it is important to not pooh-pooh the effect of a new bow on keeping interest in the sport up. One does not, though, want to encourage students to be constantly buying new gear because that is what they like best about archery.:. playing with new gear. If the archer’s goal is to shoot competitive scores, the equipment’s role is secondary and if you let it become primary, don’t expect to meet high goals.

Here’s my response to this student’s question (slightly modified):

* * *

Let me quote former Olympian, Simon Needham of England:
When an archer starts out a reasonable ‘beginner bow’ is a good bow to start with. Then when moving on to the point of to getting their own bow, a mid-priced bow will be a good choice with ILF limbs. Then, as they get better and stronger, they may well need to get higher poundage limbs. As they pass the 500 point and perhaps are looking for a better bow, I suggest that they get a top level riser, either new if they can afford it or a good second hand one. At this stage of shooting, a new or good second hand bow will have the same benefit. Any of the manufacturers best risers will take the archer up to the 650 level. It is really only scoring at that level that one manufacturer’s riser will suit an archer better than another.

The “500 point” he is referring to is a score in the Olympic Ranking Round (72 arrows shot at 70 m at a 122 cm target face, 720 points possible). The 650 level is an internationally competitive level and he is saying that only when you are that good can you tell the difference between one high quality bow and another.

So, basically, you can go a couple of routes. You can stick with what you have and make adjustments (see below) or you can upgrade to a near top-tier bow (used high quality risers are much cheaper than new). You don’t really need to worry about nuances until you are shooting very, very well. I also add that the very top-tier bows require elite expertise to shoot them well and are to be avoided until you reach that level. (Some students get carried away with a credit card.)

If you decide to keep going with what you have, the same basic considerations are involved: how does the bow feel and how does it shoot? The feel is determined by the weight of the bow (which can be adjusted by adding stabilizer weights or weights screwed directly to the riser, and the grip section. Grips can be purchased to replace the grip on your bow or, if that is not possible, the grip that is on your bow now can be modified (using polyester auto body fillers, tape, etc.—see photos). You may want to experiment with adjustments to both of these to get a better idea in your mind what you want from your bow—some prefer heavier bows, some lighter. If you prefer lighter, don’t buy a heavy riser, etc. I spend a great deal of time sanding and taping grips so they feel right in my hand.taped-grip

Also, if you are shooting with others and someone has a bow with a draw weight you can handle, it is acceptable to ask them to try their bow. It is also acceptable for them to say “no” to your request and you must not take this personally. If you do get a chance to try other bows, be sure to use your sling! Dropping someone’s bow on the floor or ground is not a good way to make friends.

jager-grips-high-med-lowSome bows fit me like a glove. Others are uncomfortable no matter what I do (too heavy, too front heavy, etc.). Trying a selection of bows will educate you as to what you like and do not like.

Evaluating whether you can shoot a bow well can only happen after you buy one because you have to tune it in, shoot it until you are comfortable, and then shoot some practice rounds to see if it at least scores as well as your old bow. (If it doesn’t, no matter how hard you try, it goes up on eBay to get enough money to buy another.)

I suspect you wanted me to say “Buy a Hoyt” or some such, but it is not the case. I heard Coach Kim of Korea ask in a seminar at the Olympic Training Center in California “Who make best bow?” When we were confused as to what he was asking, he followed with “Hoyt make best bow” which we were a little shocked at. Then he chuckled and pointed to himself and said “Hoyt dealer for all of Korea! Ha, ha!” He went on to say, “bow doesn’t really matter.” An archer who shot a 1340 FITA Round, would be given a new bow and when tuned in and comfortable, he would be shooting 1340 FITA rounds with it. “It is archer, not bow,” emphasized Coach Kim.

Having said that, there are personal preferences and Coach Kim was comparing top drawer bows from elite manufacturers. There are differences between bows but the best bows made by the major manufacturers are all capable of supporting world record scores, if the archer is capable. And as Simon mentioned above, you are not going to be able to even notice the differences between one high-end bow and another until you have reach quite a high level of expertise.

Also, you can go piecemeal on this. Buy limbs first or riser first, then the other later. (Buying better limbs will affect performance much more than buying a better riser.)

Buying a new bow is something I recommend to archers who a) have settled on a draw weight (have you?) and have reached a plateau in their performance (have you?). The only “need” of a new bow is when the bow you have is limiting your performance somehow. Buying good limbs is quite expensive and after you do if you decide you need a different weight limb, you have just spend a wad of money on a short-term use of the first limbs you bought. If you are still trying out different draw weights, I recommend you stick with limbs like those available for the SF Premium risers.

 

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The Relationship between Draw Weight and Stabilizer/Bow Weight

QandA logoI love it when I get questions I had never thought about before. When you learn a subject, it tends to channel one’s thoughts, thus avoiding questions that can challenge them, so it is good to consider such questions. The question that stimulated this flood of philosophical thinking was: “If I increase the draw weight of my bow should the weight of the stabilizer also be changed?”

* * *

At first this seemed like one of those questions beginning Olympic Recurve students ask that are inherently nonsensical, but this one is not.

The “stabilizer weight,” including how that weight is distributed, is primarily a matter of balancing the bow as well as resisting movements that can occur in the short amount of time the arrow is on the string and moving (~ 20 ms). (The long rod of a OR setup resists the bow from tilting up and down and twisting left and right, while the short rods resist the bow from rocking left and right or rotating around the axis of the long rod. About the only motion they don’t resist is movement along the axis of the long rod, which is normal and acceptable. Note, though, that the biggest source of movement resistance is the mass of the riser itself.) The draw weight is a matter of force applied to the string and riser by the archer. The weight of the stabilizer and bow is also a force but it is at roughly a right angle to the draw force … and the two do overlap some. (If you didn’t know that weight is a force, you weren’t paying attention in middle school science class.)

The deepest part of the grip of your bow (called the “pivot point”) is typically the midpoint of the length and mass of the bow. Your bow hand is mostly below that point so the bow draw force (created by your two hands and the musculature and skeleton between them) is pulling the bow back into your bow hand but also partly upward, too (like the way a construction crane works (see illustration and photo), the pull of a cable from the bottom causes the top of the other end of the crane to rise, including any weight attached to it). So, like the crane, the draw hand is supplying some of the upward force needed to hold the bow up against gravity. When you raise the draw force, you increase the amount of this effect and it is easier to hold the bow up at full draw, that is the bow “feels” slightly lighter. So, you could add more weight to your bow or take some off if it feels better, but there is no reason to try to compensate for the increased draw weight other than that.

The bridgework bit is like your bow arm. Pull on those cables and the arm will move up. (The draw force is the equivalent of the pull on the cables) And, yes, I know that the cables can also lift what is on the end of the hook without moving the arm, sheesh!

The bridgework bit in this crane is like your bow arm. Pull on those cables and the arm will move up. (The draw force is the equivalent of the pull on the cables.) And, yes, I know that the cables can also lift what is on the end of the hook without moving the arm, sheesh!

There should be no effect of the draw weight change on the feeling of balance at full draw, even though the strain you feel at full draw has gone up. That increase in strain is horizontal, not vertical. So, if your bow still feels nice and balanced, you are good to go.

The bow arm acts like the beam of the derrick, with the draw force being like the force acting through the cables. This produces a slight upward force at the bow hand which helps to hold the bow up.

The bow arm acts like the beam of the derrick, with the draw force being like the force acting through the cables. This produces a slight upward force at the bow hand which helps to hold the bow up.

Realize, though, that since your “back half” takes on part of the work of your “front half” as described above, once you let the string go, then it is harder for the front half (your bow arm specifically) to absorb the loss of help from the draw arm and “dropping your bow arm” after the shot becomes more of an issue. We do not want the bow arm to drop soon after the shot because of “normal variation”—sometimes the drop will occur later (no problem) and sometimes sooner. If the “sooner” instances involve cases in which the arrow is still attached to the string, the dropping bow will take the string and arrow with it and a low shot will occur (definitely a problem). The indicator for the form flaw “dropping your bow arm” is that low arrow hits points show up out of the blue, as we say.

 

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Where Are My Archery Underpants?

I just noticed that there is now available for purchase, golf socks and golf underwear. These are not just items offered for sale to golfers that are ordinary items, these are designed to facilitate a better game for golfers! So, add those to the golf gloves, golf shirts, golf pants, golf rain gear, golf hats, golf glasses, and all of the other items of clothing made available for golfers which are designed to make them better on the course.

So, imagine that … someone designed men’s underpants to allow the free movement of hips and legs required by the modern golf swing. Well if they can design men’s briefs to do that, why can’t they design men’s briefs that help someone be really, really still? Maybe they could be so uncomfortable that if you move, you get tactile feedback. (Ow, ow, ow!)

Now for those who scoff at my desire, and claim that there are so many more golfers than archers, so their market is just bigger, which is why so many golf products are available, let me say that there are about 25 million golfers in the U.S., more or less, according to the National Golf Foundation’s yearly study on participation. According to the 2015 Archery Trade Association survey, there were 22 million archery participants in 2014 and they didn’t count kids under 18! In addition, the number of archers is growing at a substantial pace while the number of golfers is actually shrinking. So much for that argument.

Seriously, the actual reason there are no “archery underpants” available is the usual (Hint Follow the money!). The 2UNDR underwear that prompted this post and which claims “2UNDR underwear will change your life, on and off the golf course,” are $30 per pair. Now you know.02undr

Also, seriously, when are the purveyors of archery goods going to wake up and recognize the size of this market? We seem to be locked into the idea of the market we had back when we thought there were only a few million archers in the U.S. Well, the economy still sucks and they aren’t going to use any of my money (I don’t have any) to expand offers anytime soon, so I guess it is still a matter of “follow the money.”

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